Navigating Uncertainty in the Age of AI

So, bro, I was thinking like this pod's been a long time coming. We started ideulating on it in like July kind of. >> Yeah, I think so. >> So, something that I think we've discussed a lot about is like kind of the tumultuous or just the everchanging world that we're living in right now. What are some of the things that you're seeing or that's kind of on your radar right now? >> Yeah. Well, I mean, I guess should I kick it off with just the second renaissance, like the the name

of the pod, like what the idea was about? >> Sure. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Because it feels to me like we're in this time of enormous change. Like so much is changing in the world right now, and I don't think anyone alive has ever lived through >> a transition like this. But I think it's really important to consider the positive outcomes. >> True. >> And and imagine them because that like gives us something to aim toward. I think now in this age of misinformation or just information proliferation >> yeah just

the abundance of information that you actually need to go on like what were we calling it like a information diet kind of or a fast even like a cleanse. >> Yeah. Or just considering the information you're taking in the same way we consider food. Right. >> True. And it's like how you feel on like a personal level, like when you wake up, if you start scrolling right away kind of junk food or garbage information, like you're putting all of those like negative or like toxic inputs into your body right away

in the morning. >> Yeah. >> And I'm speaking for myself cuz I tend to get on X or stuff and then I like, oh jeez, like bombings here, killings, whatever. And then I'm like, oof. you feel almost negative right away when you wake up in the morning as opposed to going to like a personalized signal that's bringing in the direct quotes that I want to see or the ticker updates or like scanning for key news items. Yeah, absolutely. And I think we've all noticed this in our in our habits like

if what information you're taking in it shapes your view of the world and like your story of what's happening in the world and how you fit in with it. >> Yeah. >> And I think the important question is what are we trying to do? True. >> Like as an individual, collectively, as a society, like what goals are we orienting towards >> and then is taking in all of the information that's happening in the world actually helping us in pursuit of those girls? That's a >> Freudian slip. >> Whoops. >> Oh

[ __ ] that's really funny. >> Oh yeah. So we could explain to the the viewers that we we >> That is a Freudian slip. Freudian slip is like when you accidentally say something that is potentially on your mind. >> The glitch is where you hear it from like an outside or someone else drops a name or a signal and suddenly you're highly tuned into that that's more a Freudian glitch or like the matrix had like a skip and you suddenly are on high alert. >> Yeah. It's like the universe's

Freudian slip. It it Freudian slipped it in there for you. >> Yeah, that's really funny. But anyway, yeah, like having some goal that you're orienting toward. And I feel like we have this um the this sense of a need to what what was the meme? Monitoring the situation. >> Monitoring the situation. Yeah. >> We feel like we have this need to like monitor the situation, right? It's like, oh, you're you're an irresponsible adult if you're not like constantly informed about all the things that are happening. >> Yeah. But >> I

do agree with that on a lot of levels, but I think it can also be too much or you can get inundated with kind of noise as opposed to the signal and you're constantly like being indoctrinated whether you realize it or not. So whatever news feed or whoever you're following on X or like Instagram or whatever, those people are influencing you even if you're not aware of it at that moment. >> Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's also the volume of the information. So if like 80% of your daily information

intake is like catastrophes that are happening in the world, then of course >> looking at me, >> but I think we're both speaking from experience. Like you see how this shapes you um >> and it shapes the story >> in your mind, the story about the world you're living in >> and then what is your place in that story. True. And I think taking in all of this disaster in the world which is happening which is real which is like worth knowing about like you don't want to bury your head

in the sand but there's also a sense of what can we do about it. >> True. >> And if if the answer is kind of nothing or feeling helpless then we're absorbing this story where we're like our role is to be a spectator nerds. >> Yeah. Exactly. it. It's just not really an empowering story of like, oh, okay, I'll just watch things crash and burn and >> um >> but also you can selectively like take in other sources of information that give you more of like a proactive story. >> Yeah,

for sure. >> Right. Where you feel like you're actually doing something, it's it's motivating to you. >> Uh you're building towards something in yourself. >> Yeah. >> And yeah, I just think it's like it's just a much more pragmatic orientation. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I think we feel better as we're producing something or making something as opposed to just like consuming information. So I think there's like a big yeah there's like a a good or a healthy mix where it's like okay you can take in a lot of information but

then it's like is that hindering your agency? Are you actually able to apply some of the new tools or the new information that's coming in? And as you were speaking, I was thinking we awoke kind of the original arbiter of signal to noise. Like TB's been quite active on X recently. To be fair, this is one of his like big topics like foreign policy in the Middle East, >> right? >> But I'm like, yeah, I'm always evaluating that for myself too. Like is this signal or is this noise? And sometimes

you don't know until like the future when you look back and you're like, "Okay, no, that was a turning point or but I don't think you need to be like kind of in the weeds all the time with that stuff either." >> Well, yeah. And this comes straight from TB. I think it was in anti-fragile where he says, >> "We are not likely to mistake a bear for a stone, but likely to mistake a stone for a bear." >> Really god damn, >> right? And it's like if your exposure to

information is is very high, if you're taking in a lot of information, >> it's easy to make that mistake. >> Yeah. You'll have a lot more false positives because is this signal? Is this noise? Do do I need to act on this? Whereas if you're taking in less information, there's a higher amount of compression to that information that other people are doing who are staying attuned to the situation. Yeah, there's some good clowns on that where it's like economists have predicted, you know, like 20 of the last three recessions or

stuff like that where they've never seen like a little bit of a signal that they haven't called, you know, a big economic event for. >> Sure. Yeah. There's a really good I think it was Lawrence J. Peter, is that the guy's name? He had a quote where he I think he said, "An economist is someone who will tell you tomorrow Yeah. >> why the thing they predicted yesterday >> didn't happen today." >> Story checks out. >> Right. Right. And yeah, something I just want to add or caveat here is that

all all the stuff that we're talking about here, like we don't know the answers either. Like we don't have certainty about any of this stuff, you know, we're applying our same like our our same methodology trying to figure this stuff out as we go. But we're pretty reasonable guys. So, if you do find yourself disagreeing with anything that we say, we're open to changing our minds or having our opinions challenged cuz I think that's how like any wizard or philosopher should kind of view themselves where it's like, okay, we're on

this quest of trying to take in information or understand the world that we're in, but we also don't have all the answers, so we're open to all kinds of new information. >> Yeah, absolutely. I sense a clown here. >> I'm just laughing because a few things. one, I could sense your eagerness to to be like, we're pretty reasonable, guys. >> Well, I think Yeah, cuz I think having an opinion, like I'll say my opinion on a lot of things, but I don't want to sound too certain on them cuz I

do change my mind quite often >> as new information comes in. >> I think that's something that we've both seen in each other over the like 15 plus years that we've known each other. >> Yeah, definitely. And then I think that adds to it like Charlie Mer says like the seamless web of deserved trust. like you've earned your reputation or trust because I've seen you like I've seen how you take in new information and how you process it and I've seen you change your mind on things that like you used

to be like okay this is my one thing or this is the thing that I want to focus on and then as new information or a better idea comes in you've done like a big leap or you've taken on that information and you've applied it so you haven't like you know held back on something or being too certain on like a prior belief >> well yeah and I think you can't really trust someone who you have seen is not willing to change their mind like it's just not rational right like

a rational approach is like okay I want the the best information so I have the best strategies right definitely >> and I'm so it's an openness to new information to come in to point out like where I might be wrong where I might be missing something >> and it's hard to emotionally it's hard to like maintain this openness because people tend to fuse their identity with their beliefs. >> No. And I think that's like the rationalist wager. It's like as new information comes in, of course, you have to kind of

update your mental models cuz you're like, well, this information I didn't have access to. Now, of course, I could make adjustments in my lifestyle or my portfolio or my conviction can change on things that I held sacred before because, yeah, the world's constantly evolving. The only sure thing is like change or evolution. And so we need to kind of be tied or geared towards taking in new information and constantly updating our mental models. >> Yeah, definitely. No, I think that's a really good point on like the world constantly changing. Yeah.

>> So any any mental model that is like fixed or static over time becomes outdated. >> Yeah. That's the shest thing to bet against almost. >> Yeah. >> Someone who's not going to update their model or their company is only going to produce one product forever. >> Right. Right. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Because it's like, okay, well, if if it's a 20-year-old mental model that you've held static for 20 years, does that mean that you've taken in no new information that has even refined the model a little bit? True. >>

Like, like you haven't you haven't encountered any information really anywhere in the world that is outside of your expectation? >> That's pedigros. That's not someone that I would want at like the helm of a business that I'm investing in. >> Oh, yeah. Absolutely. >> Yeah. No, I like Steve Jobs when he said like we shamelessly copy or we shamelessly steal like as new information comes in the people who adopt it the quickest like the AI it's like okay you can kind of be a lite and say I don't want this

to be true cuz it like displaces my job or my family's job or my communities but then it's like the people who can leverage the new technology the fastest makes them more robust to kind of thrive in the new economy. >> Yeah, absolutely. And and this brings up a a point I think is really important which is adaptability. >> Yeah. >> Because we've lived in a we lived through decades of like stability, right? General stability. Like yes, there were disruptions in there, but generally there was a predictable set of inputs

that yielded a predictable set of outputs. Yeah. >> Like you go to university for four years, you can get a job, you can work your way up the corporate ladder. um if you wanted to make more money there were like you could just okay how are people making more money okay I'm going to learn those strategies I'm going to implement those strategies and it's like very predictable >> or even going back to university like okay if I'm making this much on a bachelor's degree once I get a master's or a

PhD I climb up the corporate ladder even more kind of thing where now that world it still exists in some ways but not to the level that it did 20 years ago >> well and that's the thing I think in in stable predictable environments the strategy that yields the best results is different than in very unpredictable very uncertain environments which we've shifted into now >> because the truth is like no one knows with certainty where the jobs are going. We have some directional ideas but like AI is going to disrupt

a lot of the things we don't know exactly how. So in a time of great uncertainty, I think the best trait the best traits are openness and adaptability because it's recognizing okay things are going to change a lot. I don't know exactly in what direction. Let me just make the best predictions I can now but re-evaluate like very often >> and constantly be taking in new information or trying to learn in different fields because we don't know exactly where things are going to be. Yeah. >> Yeah. Exactly. and and yeah,

this it's an evolutionary strategy just looking to evolution. >> Yeah, >> it was Darwin who said it's not the strongest species that survives the most adaptable. >> Yeah, I love that one. >> So, it's like yeah, I think I think the skill set to stay ahead in this time in this environment is adaptability, openness, continual learning. >> Yeah, definitely. And so it's like we can never have a complete understanding of a system and every single variable in that system. So we always have to hold everything with some amount of uncertainty.

>> Yeah. And I think that's one of the biggest things that maybe we could kind of impart on people to hold more uncertainty. I think you've influenced me a lot on that, especially with like investments and other things where it's like as much conviction as you have on one thing, if you're too certain on it, that's where you get into trouble. >> Yeah. Cuz certainty creates blind spots. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Once you're too certain on something, >> now you've fused your identity with it. >> Yeah. >> So any information

that contradicts it, your system's going to naturally filter out because it perceives it as a a threat on your survival, on your identity. >> Exactly. Yeah. Cuz you start to take on that belief system where it's like, yeah. any extreme ideology and any kind of belief system you need to hold with some level of uncertainty >> and it's like a cognitive superpower if you're able to do that. >> Definitely >> if you're able to hold something with enough conviction to act on it but at the same time be totally open

to the potentiality that you're wrong. >> So now you're like seeking information. You're does someone know something that I don't know? Because if you do I want that information cuz I want to update my beliefs. Like I just want to win, right? I just want the best beliefs that lead to the best outcomes. So, always seeking information that disagrees with your hypothesis. That's actually what makes your ideas stronger. >> Definitely. That's why I like investing so much cuz I think it's one of the only fields where you kind of have

to admit that you're wrong or else you'll bleed to death. You know what I mean? >> Right. >> Yeah. Like Jack Schwagger who wrote uh Market Wizards, like he talks about that a lot. He's like, I think after interviewing so many successful like money managers, he came to the one kind of undeniable fact is that the people who were the most successful over long time spans were the ones that could kind of quickly update their belief systems when new information came in >> cuz it made them more robust, right? like

they they could have been so strongly opinionated on one conviction and then suddenly you have like an event like that happened like 3 weeks ago or a month ago where you're like okay the world has changed now like my I have to update my belief systems or else yeah we're going to lose money or we're going to bleed. This this is a really interesting topic though because th there's somewhat of a paradoxical tension because you have examples like TB and his fund and uh Michael Bur where they had to hold

this conviction even if like >> oh they were kind of wrong on a minute daily weekly monthly even yearly basis until they were like really really right. >> Exactly. But they had to be able to hold that conviction despite the evidence of the universe being like this isn't playing out. True. >> So that that's an interesting tension I think. Right. >> Yeah. And I think they were able to do that because of the way like one how their funds were structured. Like a lot of funds out there judged on like

a quarterly or annual basis, you couldn't have these massive draw downs like on a conventional fund structure, but because of the way that they were gated, they were able to have like big draw downs, but they could explain or kind of show the information like no, my thesis is still intact even though the market doesn't agree with me right now until they were proven like really it's like 50% draw down, 20% draw down and then like 800% on like the following here. >> I like this topic though because there's some

things where you you believe a thesis so strongly that you're willing to ignore evidence from the universe in the contrary because you firmly believe you'll be vindicated eventually. >> Yeah. >> But then there's times also where that doesn't work out. So there's there's a famous example not in investing but in um in physics with uh Albert Einstein because Einstein um early on in his career he had very strong conviction about things that the rest of the world hadn't realized yet and he was right. >> Yeah. >> Right. So he completely

shaped like the landscape of physics but it ended up um leading to quantum physics which said that things are fundamentally indeterministic. >> And Einstein rejected this cuz he said God does not play dice with the universe. Like he refused to believe that that um the universe was fundamentally left up to some amount of randomness. And so he spent the last, my understanding is he spent the last few decades of his life trying to come up with work that would undermine his original work that led to the development of quantum physics.

>> Wow. >> But it seems that he was just wrong with his conviction because further research has just shown quantum physics is incredibly effective and and has predictive power. So he needed the certainty that the the universe is deterministic. But I think that's because it psychologically gave him this safety net of there's an order to things because I think when um in the enlightenment period with like the scientific revolution when we kind of got rid of organized religion which which had a narrative that was like oh things are safe because

because >> I was trying not to bring up religion. We're >> I'm doing my best not to. >> We're we're going to hit all the uh all the controversial topics in but in very open reasonable ways. in reasonable ways. Cuz that was where I was going with the nemesis uh comment where I think like it's hard to hold religious beliefs with uncertainty, which is one of my beliefs, but I'm also open that there's value in all belief systems. Well, yeah. And I I like looking at religions. You could just look

at it from a systems perspective of it's a it's a set of values and beliefs that made a group of people have coherence to be able to cooperate together. >> So they're they're evolutionary strategies in some way. The ones that did that better and more effectively were able to out compete other belief systems that didn't bring people together in that level of coherence. I think they served useful purposes at like spec especially like where you look at just empires you're like okay that belief system there was something about it that

resonated with more people at that time or it caused them to be more animated or radical or like to take on more Yeah. Absolutely. But then then we also see historically that if it was too dogmatic or close to new information then it just led to stagnation. Right. And that was the middle ages, >> you know, until the the Renaissance enlightenment period where people opened up to discovery again. Um but yeah, so I mean but if you look at these as belief systems that allow groups to work together with larger

and larger groups in in coordination towards shared goals, I think there's a way for us to try to get those benefits of some sort of religious orientation without the dogma that closes people to taking in new information. >> Yeah, I'm open to that being true. Yeah. >> But yeah, that's where I think like the um the the safety net thing I I think science has slipped into its own need for certainty around certain things because >> it's become its own religion. >> It has. Well, yeah. Because there's there's certain dogmas

of the scientific worldview. But I feel like on some level it's our it's our psychological need for closure, which which is certainty, right? like like the need to okay I understand how things work whether it's uh >> whether it's because of some religious principle or it's because of the laws of physics like I understand everything good like everything makes sense um but actually we can't have that level of closure definitely just pulling up one of my favorite voltater quotes um on certainty doubt is not a pleasant state to be in,

but certainty is absurd. >> Ah, okay. >> Yeah. So, it's like nobody wants to feel like it's a very uncomfortable position to be in like not knowing what's going to happen next, but as soon as you're certain about something, that's where you've overstepped or gone too far, >> right? >> Yeah. So, that one really resonated with me. >> Yeah. And I think people will choose like a bad certainty or a bad path over no path just because Yeah. No, it's harder to sleep or you need to make some assumptions about

what's going to happen the next day when you wake up, right? Yeah. It's it's interesting. I've been I've been thinking through this a lot because it's a fundamental part of of life or living that that is uncertainty, right? I mean, from very early in evolution, you can think of like a cell. A cell in the body, it has no idea what's going on. It doesn't even does it even know it's part of a a body. It has no idea what's outside of the the body. Like, if that's too abstract for

people to connect to, like organisms, right? Like a like a a wild cat is born in the wild. It's like it doesn't know what's going on, right? that the they can't really communicate. Everything is a surprise, right? That happens from the environment and then over time it learns things from the environment. It learns enough for stability, for survival to like lead towards better thriving. And this is the case of early humans too, right? It's kind of why people conceived of things as the gods, right? Because like what is what is

thunder? What is rain? What are these >> things they couldn't explain at that time? So they created like entities or things bigger than them to kind of that was their way of holding uncertainty was making another uncertainty basically. >> But I think what they did is they wrapped it in mystery and they called the mystery of the gods. They called it the divine. It's just this thing we can't understand. >> No. And I think there is value in like those stories or some of the myths that went along with it.

like it did help people or it gave them purpose or um yeah it made them feel better in the world that was rapidly changing or very uncertain. Now we have better explanations for a lot of those things so we don't need to you know like rip people's hearts out if there's like an eclipse or like oh no there's polio there like oh it's because these people are doing these kind of acts so we need to stone these people or kill all like now we have better explanations for a lot of

those things. Yeah. And I think the pursuit of explanations is generally a good orientation for humanity. But then I think we've lost this ability to hold uncertainty in in mystery. We don't have a tool. We don't have a psychological tool for for managing and dealing with this. Um we we try to explain everything away as if we know how to explain everything, right? Oh, that X just happens because of Y. But all of those are like hypothesis. >> True. >> Our our science is still very much incomplete. Um even at

the deepest level, quantum physics is incompatible with with Einstein's general relativity. Like even at the fundamental level of physics, we know our best theories are incomplete because they're incompatible with each other at very large scales and very small scales. >> I'll take your word on that. Yeah. So yeah, we just we kind of have this illusion of certainty which is oh science can explain things which is true. Science as we accumulate more and more knowledge we're able to explain more and more things but there's still a lot of things that

we can explain and we just have this oh well science will explain it one day but we don't actually know that that's the case. But I think that's a comforting belief system that eventually we can figure that's still the uncertainty one for me. Like eventually it's a high probability that we're going to figure these things out. >> Yeah. But it creates its own dogma. It it creates its own dogmatic way of viewing things because so I feel like there's um there's two ways of looking at the world. Then one is

is kind of a reductionist rationalistic view which is which is splitting things into parts understanding the parts breaking them into further parts like this is how science has understood the world and it's been very effective but then there's things that you can't explain by putting the parts back together. So we've actually never once um you can't derive chemistry from the laws of physics. Like chemistry has emergent properties and and ways things work that you can't explain with physics alone. And then it's the same with chemistry to biology. You can't explain

the behavior of organisms or how biology works with only chemistry. And it's the same thing with psychology. You can't explain psychology with only biology. like the this it's this um myth of reductionism that by breaking everything down into smaller parts, everything is just physics, right? That's that's a belief that actually hasn't been validated because not one time have we been able to explain the whole just in in terms of the parts. There's a holistic way of looking at things which is just we don't understand the exact mechanisms of how this

works but we can still see cause and effect like when you try this strategy this outcome is more likely to happen. >> Yeah. >> And I feel like people either fall too much into this like reductionist way of thinking or too much into the holistic way of thinking. And when people are too holistic that's when I think they get like woo woo beliefs or or conspiracy theory beliefs. >> We're not talking about the conspiracy facts are we? Yeah. No, I think that's true too. Yeah, >> definitely. >> Like what are

people struggling with? Um >> I I think how rapidly things are changing, >> right? >> Yeah. I think that would be number one. Like uncertain of what to read, what to learn, what to study, uh what to apply themselves with, like what should they be focusing on. I think that would be even for myself, I think that would be like one of the top ones. >> Yeah, definitely. And this is why I I have this intuition that like we we need something with community like cuz social media platforms have kind

of just trended towards uh everyone's >> sensationalism >> and it's spectator mode like everyone's looking at people on the world stage who are like really famous and what do they say what do they think and it's like a >> whoever has the biggest existing platform already. >> Yeah. I mean like I've tried posting on X and it just like I it's a I have a new account and it just promotes my tweets to like seven people, right? And I'm like it's not very inspiring. >> No, for sure. >> And even

if we follow each other on X, we like don't see each other's tweets in the feed. >> It's drown in like the celebrity accounts, >> right? And and yeah, so I mean I feel like there's we're missing a layer of like conversation, communication between peers. >> True. Um, yeah. And I feel like this is really necessary. I think people need to like figure things out together and everyone's trying to like figure things out isolated in their own bubble and looking to like influencers for what they think. But I think it's

it's very clear that like the the influencers, the thought leaders like don't have answers to this stuff. >> No, they're just other like wizards chucking ideas out there and seeing what happens to Yeah. >> Yeah. They're trying to figure it out just like the rest of us. And there's some really smart people out there. But like I feel like we need the accumulated brain power of millions, billions of people like sharing their experience, their perspective, what's working for them, asking questions, what problems they're having. somehow like we can get this

a decentralized network of all these minds sharing information together instead of like this hierarchical top down where everyone's listening to the opinions of like less than 1% of the world population. >> True. >> I feel like just intuitively the more brain power you have solving problems the it's it's like compute on a on on a CPU or something like that. If you have a billion minds all using AI to like solve problems, that's going to out compete a million minds or a thousand minds using AI to solve problems no matter

how smart the a thousand minds are. >> Yeah. >> It's just about like aggregation and accumulation of of evidence and and human experience is evidence. And also uh one caveat here is that I think there's also if you are on X and social media a lot or probably YouTube too there's this sense of like everything is going to change in the next 2 weeks and >> yeah the timelines are a lot bigger than most people are shooting out. >> The transition will probably be slower. Um and I feel like >>

getting too high a sense of like anxiety and fear is not pragmatically useful. >> It shuts you down. >> Definitely. So like stepping back, breathing, take a minute, >> take a moment. >> Take a moment. >> Yeah. >> Um >> then come back in a awakened awareness state. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. >> But yeah, I think it's just about um staying open, learning, experimenting, paying attention. >> Yeah. >> Trying to help put pieces of society together in more efficient and constructive and valuegiving ways. >> Definitely. And I think as

the world moves like more let's say automated I think the community um will become more important of like how to build a community and how to have the relationships or interactions that are meaningful and how we're wired cuz I think a lot of people uh especially during co that was one of the big things that they struggled with and I think in an AI kind of futuristic world too more people will not have that like relationship or community that they really need. So, I think that'll be a big one and

I think that's added a lot of value to my life is just having like a community or a mastermind that we can bounce ideas off to uh get feedback on and um yeah, it makes you more robust or resilient having like your brothers in arms like with you in great times of uncertainty. >> Absolutely. I'm curious, are you talking more of like an in-person community or online community or it could be both or? >> Yeah, I think it could be both. I mean, in person is ideal, but people are spread

out more than ever now. But I think the closer you are like the human connection I think will kind of go through the roof where people were really going to crave that or want like deeper meaningful relationships more. People talk about like, you know, bot girlfriends or myself too, like not on the bot girlfriends, but I'm engaging with AI. >> Hopefully not engaged though. >> No, especially if we're under 30. Um, but it would be like after engaging with AI or Noito a lot, I'm like, "Oh, actually, I crave like

being around humans, right?" Like the human connection and not someone who's overly like biased or just kind of telling me what I want to hear. kind of like the hard truths or real feedback or real engagement like that too. >> Yeah. No, I totally agree with that. I I do feel like the in-person connection and community is going to be more and more important. >> I think the online community is is very helpful too. Like you said, just having some degree of like brothers in arms kind of like peers who

are in on a quest together. Yeah. Exactly. So you're not like alone on a quest like trying to figure things out. you have you have people to to share that with >> and there's other people that have the same kind of like problems or worries or fears that I have and it's like oh once we're in this together like there's power in numbers of us just being able to support each other even like with the vibe coding like help each other with the latest technologies help each other with book recommendations

or just being there for feedback and support. >> Yeah. Yeah. And also because everyone has like unique skills or advantages, it multiplies if you have like a a close group. Like uh I think that's something we'll talk a lot more on the podcast is the concept of the mastermind group. >> One of our favorites. >> Yeah. But but yeah, having like a core group of like three to five people who you're like very could even just be two people like you and one other like you and I did that for

years in in Korea. >> Uh where we were >> Thanks Darren Hardy. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. Cuz he it was that book, right? The compound effect >> is that where we got it from. >> I'm pretty sure like he talks about meeting up with one of his buddies on a regular basis and holding each other accountable. >> Yeah, that's such a powerful one >> to really help you along on the quest like No Wizard Left Behind. The ability to kind of pull each other up or like leverage

each other's diverse skill sets, >> right? Yeah. >> Should we talk about the wizard thing cuz you mentioned that multiple times now. >> Yeah. I think something you and I resonated with early on was like the philosopher, >> like the seeker of wisdom or trying to understand. And then >> uh you brought up the idea of like the wizard being very similar to the philosopher where they're seeking wisdom as well too, right? Or what was the definition? >> There's a few interesting connections here. Um so the word wizard comes from

the old English word root for wisdom or it's the same word root as wisdom. Yeah. >> So the word wizard originally meant something like a philosopher. So it was someone who was very wise and in kind of the the dark ages, someone who who is very wise was like indistinguishable from magic, right? So it kind of became this magical meaning >> mystical definition. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um, but then also I think we tied it in with this realization where we're like, well actually if you think about it, >> words are

spells because your beliefs affect your reality. And this is known through the placebo effect. There's like there's hundreds of thousands of studies showing a placebo effect that what we believe can physically change our like biology, our neurochemistry, our outcomes in the real world. >> And your beliefs are affected by the words you use. the stories you tell yourself and and you have an effect on others too, right? >> Definitely. I was cursed recently actually. >> Oh yeah, you did get cursed. >> Yeah. >> But um yeah, so I think that's

what we identified. We're like, well actually what you are constantly casting spells on everyone around you. You're either uplifting them and giving them like helpful narratives or you're like making them feel down and out. >> Yeah. >> And then I think we uh we like if you think about it, we are all wizards. >> Yeah. True. Yeah. We're all on like quests and we're all constantly kind of trying to understand or seeking more wisdom. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And it just it's a more fun way to >> It kind of

gifies. Exactly. Yeah. >> Right. >> Yeah. And I think it's important that people like not take the current situation or themselves too seriously. Also, which ties into like why we like clowning or like keeping a light kind of banter, a light frame of mind cuz times can be really serious or you can be kind of overwhelmed by news headlines or like geopolitical happenings in the world where it's like sure that stuff is really important or it can be quite serious. But I think kind of taking like the clown wager, the

pragmatist wager and just keeping a light frame of mind like this makes me feel better. like laughing is a great medicine or I think it ties into exercise and all that stuff. It's like everything is uncertain or can be very like doom and gloom, but at the same time it's like our best choice is to choose to be like happy and healthy and resilient or like keeping a strong community. >> No, I think that's a great point actually. Yeah. Which is like the trying to keep things light-hearted and fun. It

does have a physiological change in the body. I'm sure there's studies on this too. related to like the amagdala which is the fear like fight orflight anxiety center of our brain. There are studies that have shown that when you're consuming a lot of content that activates that it actually grows the the gray matter in the brain around the amydala. So you're kind of training your brain to be more attuned to anxiety and fear and threats, right? like what is threatening in the world right now. I'm g evolutionarily there's an environment

where that's adicial. Yeah. >> But actually it it's not beneficial in our lives right now that stuff is happening. But yeah, I think uh there's definite studies on certain types of meditation that that reduce the gray matter and the amagdala and actually bring you back into more way like an ease of being in the world. And I'm sure the the light-heartedness, the joking is it has the same effect. And then it's like that makes you more likely to be in a state where you have agency and you're able to to

have an influence on your outcomes. >> Definitely. >> Rather than this sense of like fear, anxiety, like it's it's paralyzing. >> Yeah, for sure. And I think the idea of like when I got really into kind of like the clown philosophy or like the gesters and stuff like that, I thought like um like laughing is makes you immortal. like in that moment where you're overcome by like surprise or like a hearty laugh, in that moment you're kind of like the gods or you're invincible in that moment. And I think that's

why taking yourself like not too seriously is so important or having like inclusive jokes or clowns where it's like you're bringing in everyone so everyone gets to experience that with you as opposed to like yeah kind of a polarizing clown or something that's like pulling people down. So you're having to laugh at their expense as opposed to like an inclusive clown where everyone can take part in that. >> Yeah. And there you go. That's like casting a spell again, right? If you like if you like make a good joke and

everyone laughs and it like brings the group collectively more together, you're like casting like a bonding spell or like a >> definitely. But yeah, and I also think like it's a superpower to be able to do that to like to manipulate your own emotions to keep them in a positive state to keep yourself moving forward. >> Definitely. >> I think that's one of your superpowers, too, is like definitely the clown the clown method. >> Yeah, the clown method. Yeah. Yeah. I guess I think that was developed by being in serious

situations growing up where I'd like Yeah. when I was bored or I think in our recent retreat, not that that was boring at all, but maybe at times when I didn't understand Mandarin or just like that's what I default to when my brain's like pointing signals at me like, "Oh, this is uncertain or I don't understand this or it's getting too serious." That's like my default. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, >> it's defaulting to that mode. Yeah. >> Right. Right. >> You know, that was good. >> Yeah. >> I think we

crushed it. >> We totally crushed it, bro. No, that we covered a lot of different topics there. Wow. >> Yeah, exactly. Well, I think we have a lot of like pent up things that we've been like wanting to talk about for a long time. Definitely. >> So, we're like, "Okay, mic's rolling." Like like get them all out there. >> Yeah. >> Nice. Solid first episode. >> Yeah. Well done, sir. >> All right. Well, that wraps up the first episode of the Second Renaissance podcast. >> Yeah. Thanks for uh tuning in.

And if you're watching this, then you're one of our uh Are we allowed to look at the cameras? Then you're one of our like first viewers and subscribers. >> Like and subscribe. >> So yeah, join us on this adventure together while we uh try to make sense of what's going on in the world in a very >> a shared quest. >> Yeah, a shared quest. >> Yeah, we don't have all the answers, but we're like seeking them. >> And we're pretty reasonable guys. >> Yeah. At the end of the day,

we're pretty reasonable wizards.